Trans-Alpine Redemptorists
An era is coming to an end. The pontiff has breathed - or rather wheezed into a tube - his last. In time-honoured fashion (actually rather more decorously than is traditional; look at the Borgias...) there is the usual scrabble and speculation over the next candidate while the poor old codger's form is still warm and we shall shortly see the white smoke of ballots floating up the chimney: Aah, modern technology.
We are reliably informed that the odds are shortening on an ultra-conservative (well there's a surprise), a (gasp!) black cardinal with happy ideas of unity between muslims, buddhists and catholics - though naturally protestants are beyond the pale, and a rank outsider who is considered dangerously 'progressive', although at the age of seventy-odd I would have thought he's not got much progression left in him.
Still, a new(ish) lease of life will come to the Vatican, one supposes, and anyone who still pays attention to the Christ-malarkey will presumably prick up their ears.
Which brings me by circuitous route to the topic of this blog. My flatmate - in a crisis of non-faith - went on the Camino, and was adopted by a bunch of monks from Orkney, the Trans-Alpine Redemptorists. These lot didn't like John-Paul as he was, ahem, radical, too forward-thinking and too (I kid you not) zeitgeisty for them. They like to say the mass in Latin and nothing but. They make quite nice cheese. They dislike homosexuals. They participate good-humouredly in village competitions. Apprarently, girls wearing trousers is sailing a bit close to the wind in their opinion.
My flatmate is spending Easter with them, and god knows who exactly will be returning to London. Not the same person who left, I think. I'm personally holding out for her returning as a Nun.
Now, I was talking to a mutual friend who informs me that the Trans-Alpine Redemptorists have been excommunicated by the Pope for being too conservative. However, the person in question is notoriously vague and this might not be true (to cover my bottom from litigation). Now what I wish to know is, if you're excommunicated by the Pope, then when that Pope dies, are you still excommunicated? And do the descendents of the excommunicated labour under that same misfortune. Is, for example, the Queen still under a black cloud because of naughty old Henry VIII?
Any thoughts?
posted by Shizue @ 1:11 PM
8 Comments:
No thoughts other than the fact that if she's not a nun when she comes back, she'll break your legs for suggesting it!
Could you set up a makeshift church in your house with idols and everything? That'd be kinda cool.
If she's a nun, can she be an all-singing, all-dancing nun a la Sister Act or Sound of Music? ("How do you solve a problem like Katreeena?")
Er, shes back and as far as I can tell, not yet a nun. However, she keeps talking about how 'funky' rosaries can be.
Honestly.
Oooh, controversial indeed! No, I did actually mean icons. But then, I've only been in a church five times in my life (two weddings, one funeral, one visit with Grandma aged seven [I was aged seven, not Grandma] and a couple of weeks ago to see Becky sing), so they might as well have glitterballs and bouncy castles for all I know.
You egocentric young miss! The topic was the Orcadian monks, with a bit of Pope-stuff thrown in for good measure.
you're just the link to introduce them. The prologue to their main act, if you will.
The post was prompted by the Pope popping his clogs more than anything else.
Tcha!
Look! Look! I got a proper reply from an Orcadian Monk (I'm not telling you his name just in case he doesn't wish me to, but I promise I haven't made him up)which explains the whole excommunication thing. How exciting!
'Excommunication can happen in two ways. Either automatically (ipso facto) by the commission of a certain action or by being imposed by the legitimate authority (late sententia). However it happens there is no question of it involving the Pope's infallible authority. There is an extremely famous historical example of an invalid papal excommunication. In the fourth century St. Athanasius was excommunicated by Pope Liberius (under pressure from the emperor) at a time when this saint was almost the only bishop in the entire world who was upholding the orthodox doctrine on the divinity of Christ. Obviously this excommunication was invalid. If valid, it continues to apply until it is lifted. The death of the Pope has no bearing on the matter. It does not apply to your descendants but in the case of the Queen it is not necessary as she is plainly not in communion with the Catholic Church anyway and that is the meaning of ex-communication.
In the Code of Canon Law there are various ways by which what would normally be an excommunication ipso facto or late sententia can be prevented from taking place. Such for example are the absense of grave subjective fault, the existence of a state of emergency, or even the genuine though mistaken belief that such a state of emergency exists. The imputation of excommunication under which we labour was an ipso facto one which applied only to Archbishop Lefebvre founder of the SSPX and the four Bishops he consecrated. All three of the above circumstances apply in this case hence preventing it from being a real excommunication as has been acknowledged by non-Traditionalist canon lawyers. In addition to this the Vatican claimed that support of the SSPX would constitute a schismatic act by the faithful and schism per se means an automatic excommunication (ipso facto). Again the three circumstances apply here but most especially there is in fact no question of any schism to merit an excomunication but at most an act of disobedience. That was even officially recognised by Cardinal Ratzinger in 1991.
In the end the critical element in assessing this situation is the question of whether a state of emergency exists in the Catholic Church or not. For all those with eyes to see it is plainly, even grossly evident that such is the case and that Rome itself is fuelling and perepetuating this emergency.'
I've no idea what other catholics' take on this would be, so I can't comment, but look! its a proper reply to my blog! (I'm still excited.)
I never expected to see the author of 'Trans-Alpine Redemptorists' of all things censoring my reply to her. How sincere is her burlesque of the Vatican I wonder? Well, it only seems to go to prove that Becky has more in common with radical Catholicism than she would care to admit to herself. Here is the part Becky cut:
"Curiously, one of your favourite books Unexplained Laughter was written by Alice Thomas Ellis, an almost virulently traditional, unzeitgeisty Catholic and who was one of the most vocal witnesses to the current emergency within the Church. To quote from her obituary in the Times:
"After The Spectator, she contributed a column to The Universe from 1989 to 1991, which was followed by a column in The Catholic Herald. By now she had become an implacable Catholic traditionalist, deploring the Second Vatican Council (which, she said, let in not a breath of fresh air but “a tide of sewage”), detesting ecumenism, appalled by abortion." Keeping things simple for the Becky-centric worldview, the tide of sewage is the ample justification for our behaviour. Finally, shortly before Alice died on the request of one of her friends I said the Tridentine Mass for her intentions and forwarded a card to her announcing this fact. Her friend told me later that she was thrilled to receive this and was obviously entirely unconcerned with excommunication or schism. If you don't believe me you might believe Alice?"
Could there be two burgeoning nuns in the same flat?
No, Becky could never be a nun - she said so herself - she'd have trouble with the obedience side of things :-)
Talking of nuns, I've just finished reading a biography of Edith Stein. For those of you not in the know Edith Stein was a Jew born in Germany in 1891 who converted to Catholicism and became a Carmelite nun. Tragically she was eventually arrested by the Nazis and sent to Auschwitz where she died. I found her story very gripping to read.
Guess I'll have to read some Alice Thomas Ellis next.
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